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Vocal Dynamics - Collinizballin - 10-23-2017

Can we get a list of all vocal dynamics going for reference and practice.

So we have-
Breathiness
Crescendo
Decrescendo
swell
Piano
Fortisimmo
Glissando
vibrato
legato
stacatto
nasality
Mouthiness
vocal fry
false cord
twang
brightness

I've realized that singing is all about mental imagery and any attempt to understand singing linguistically in your head produces varied results whereas with mental imagery if you can imagine the tone and dynamics of the sound before you create it then boom you're in business.  And yes I realize these are words but I feel as though you can imagine their qualities as something to be applied to the characteristic of language rather than language.  Sort of like how you would envision moving your arm and then do it but not think specifically using words "I am going to move my arm 30 degrees right now".  So what else am I missing?


RE: Vocal Dynamics - ronws - 10-24-2017

You captured it in a nutshell. When play guitar, piano, or drums, you can see your hands, arms, and legs moving and can adjust what you need to do to improve and gain consistency. Not so with the voice. And there is not actual physical control. You are training based on ideas, which is mental.


RE: Vocal Dynamics - Collinizballin - 10-24-2017

(10-24-2017, 12:18 AM)ronws Wrote: You captured it in a nutshell. When play guitar, piano, or drums, you can see your hands, arms, and legs moving and can adjust what you need to do to improve and gain consistency. Not so with the voice. And there is not actual physical control. You are training based on ideas, which is mental.

There is physical control but so much of it is subconscious rather than conscious.  Although I believe our consciousness is just a higher state of subconsciousness, but that's sort of besides the point.  I think too much emphasis is put on a linguistic understanding of singing and not so much on associating sounds and characteristics with feelings.  It's like if you believe in placement, we'd both agree that resonance can be placed and their are proper placements to feel the sensations of your sound that would result in desirable tone and endurance.  But when you think about the voice and focus on placing your sound in a certain area of your head space it becomes increasingly difficult the harder you try, because you're putting the cart before the horse so to say, to imagine that your voice will feel a certain way so it can sound a certain way is going to cause you trouble.  But I think to imagine your voice will sound a certain way so it can feel a certain way is also a mistake and I'm sort of reaching out now beyond the realm of my knowledge because I don't know if what I'm saying is true and it's mostly speculative.  I hesitate to say that because I think the results are better if you just try to sound a certain way but at the same time I believe there would be drawbacks to that as well.  I guess it's best to keep all the characteristics of your technique in mind at once without focusing too hard on a single ccharacteristic of technique or clinging to one idea of what you think is a solution.  It's sort of like this Buddhist philosophy I recently stumbled on that said to practice a skill such as mindfulness one should focus in balance on effort, concentration and equanimity.


RE: Vocal Dynamics - ronws - 10-24-2017

To me, placing a note is not so much about pushing the note to a certain place as it is just getting out of my own way, getting out of the way of the note and letting it get to where it needs to be. And young ones don't understand that and I just sound like a crazy old man with mystic language. When really, I am speaking as plainly as I can, with as much mathetmatical precision as I can. And that includes expecting or allowing sensations in places, even if the note does not actually resonate in that specific spot, if I feel that sensation, the note is right. So, in the end, the linguistics, over which we all debate and understand and misunderstand, and I am just as vunerable to that, is secondary. As long as it leads you to the good note, then it is good. For example, the term, curbing, in CVT. Many people using that system get great results. I can only think of the rolled concrete curb at the street in front of a house. And nothing can dissuade me of that, it is a failing of mine, for sure. But not properly conceiving that mindset does not prevent me from making a sound that others might describe as curbing. I might be calling it mix, or light head voice, or goosenfrabe.


RE: Vocal Dynamics - Collinizballin - 10-25-2017

(10-24-2017, 11:06 PM)ronws Wrote: To me, placing a note is not so much about pushing the note to a certain place as it is just getting out of my own way, getting out of the way of the note and letting it get to where it needs to be. And young ones don't understand that and I just sound like a crazy old man with mystic language. When really, I am speaking as plainly as I can, with as much mathetmatical precision as I can. And that includes expecting or allowing sensations in places, even if the note does not actually resonate in that specific spot, if I feel that sensation, the note is right. So, in the end, the linguistics, over which we all debate and understand and misunderstand, and I am just as vunerable to that, is secondary. As long as it leads you to the good note, then it is good. For example, the term, curbing, in CVT. Many people using that system get great results. I can only think of the rolled concrete curb at the street in front of a house. And nothing can dissuade me of that, it is a failing of mine, for sure. But not properly conceiving that mindset does not prevent me from making a sound that others might describe as curbing. I might be calling it mix, or light head voice, or goosenfrabe.

I think part of the problem is getting out of your own way doesn't always produce the desired results, because of the imperfect nature of the human system it can produce varied results but it is the path of least resistance and the most sustainable if you give it time to do it's work.  Like I agree that to make a sound resonate and feel how I want it I can push it and get it where I want it to be at the cost of extra energy and increased risk of vocal damage but if I allow it to happen it might not always go where I feel it should, probably because of hoarseness or faulty technique.  Or perhaps I'm not getting out of my way as much as I should and there are still small misconceptions or insecurities holding me back.  But I can only get out of my own way as much as I'll allow myself too, I can only relax to the degree that my state of mind and body will allow in that current moment which is why patience plays a crucial part in singing.  Also acceptance of how you sound and how you feel.  

Curbing to me is holding back your sound trying to sound quiet.  It's a good technique to practice and I suppose the mental imagery makes sense because I think of curbing as limiting or holding an opponent back in some way.  Usually I associate that metaphor with sports like we want to curb the other teams offense.  Personally I prefer covering as a way of understanding that concept of containing your sound because it makes me think of using the soft pallete which as my singing progresses I've become highly aware of,  my soft pallets stays up and I want to get it to come down to a more neutral position but because of my increased breath flow it resists that.  And that causes an issue of releasing to much air at once.  Another good concept for understanding curbing is just pianisummo singing.  To sing lightly you have to use more head voice muscles and narrow the funnel that is your vocal tract and when you start to unnarow because of your larynx dropping your sound becomes more breathy and cherry, which will seam easier at first but without that narrow conception of your voice and the light fluty coordination the higher pitches will become harder to hit because the vocal tract shaping at least to me seems more difficult starting from an open throat position than from a properly narrowed throat position.  I know they say your larynx has to rise to rise in pitch but part of me thinks it has to lower to rise in pitch.  Idk though like I said, my understanding of the voice is mostly speculative based off my own experiences and some objective knowledge of vocal pedagogy


RE: Vocal Dynamics - ronws - 10-25-2017

Well, I am certainly no expert of singing with no credentials for it, in spite of my long history of singing. I just know the things that have worked for me. And whenever I think I know too much or need to worry about all that stuff or even think of getting into debate about it, I think of Mick Jagger. Not pretty, has a funky voice, never had lessons, studied accounting at college, and he has more money than God and is still singing after50 some odd years of professional singing.

He follows the three golden rules.
Hydrate
get rest
do what is that your voice can do, not what it cannot do.


RE: Vocal Dynamics - Collinizballin - 10-26-2017

(10-25-2017, 11:51 PM)ronws Wrote: Well, I am certainly no expert of singing with no credentials for it, in spite of my long history of singing. I just know the things that have worked for me. And whenever I think I know too much or need to worry about all that stuff or even think of getting into debate about it, I think of Mick Jagger. Not pretty, has a funky voice, never had lessons, studied accounting at college, and he has more money than God and is still singing after50 some odd years of professional singing.

He follows the three golden rules.
Hydrate
get rest
do what is that your voice can do, not what it cannot do.

Right.  I find it hard to drink water, I should probably be drinking more of it.  I agree do what your voice can do, not what it can't.  But also push yourself slightly past your limits so you can continue to grow instead of regress.